07:18:13 <fflogbot> fflogbot has joined #fenfire
07:18:13 <benford.freenode.net> topic is: http://fenfire.org - the channel may or may not be logged
07:18:13 <benford.freenode.net> Users on #fenfire: fflogbot rubberpaw vegai ibid jvk benja_ mudyc majukati humppake tuukkah antont 
07:18:17 <benja_> listening to ibid's lecture on formal methods
07:18:23 <benja_> in the software engineering course
07:19:19 <benja_> [auditorio 3]
07:28:56 <tuukkah> benja_, do you understand everything ?-)
07:29:37 <tuukkah> I can use this as a rehearsal before the course final exam
07:30:52 <benja_> tuukkah, I understand almost nothing =)
07:31:11 <tuukkah> oh :-(
07:31:23 <tuukkah> "formaali" is formal and "menetelmä" is method =)
07:31:50 <tuukkah> "ohjelmoinnin" is programming's and "matematiikka" is mathematics
07:31:55 <benja_> :)
07:32:21 <tuukkah> "joukko" is set and "oppi" is study or theory
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07:39:11 <tuukkah> benja_, so we should apply those effects to fenfire
07:39:44 <benja_> yes yes, it's fine, it's fine
07:41:07 <tuukkah> what' fine? we're leaving behind in eye candy development! do we have any physical models at all? !-)
07:45:48 <tuukkah> now you missed "berliinin muuri"
07:47:10 <benja_> I should go soon, Matti is coming at 11
07:47:30 <benja_> * benja_ is working on software engeneering, even if not listening =-)
07:47:43 <benja_> well, s/working on/learning about/
07:47:46 <benja_> UML, really
07:47:50 <tuukkah> heh :-)
07:48:02 <tuukkah> what are you going to do with Matti?
07:48:02 <benja_> filling in some small things I don't know yet
07:48:11 <benja_> tuukkah: porting canvas vie
07:48:12 <benja_> w
07:48:25 <tuukkah> I could come and spectate you
07:48:32 <benja_> ok, please do =)
08:03:03 <benja_> should go, I guess
08:10:42 <benja_> majukati: we are in the fireplace room
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09:57:29 <majukati> hi
10:03:34 <benja_> hi
10:06:01 <rubberpaw> rubberpaw has quit
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11:02:53 <ffdarcsbot> hippaladuida
11:03:04 <tuukkah> argh
11:03:26 <tuukkah> I wanted to add reconnect support
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11:03:56 <tuukkah> always forget to escape the # in shell :-)
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11:30:58 <tuukkah> ok, I hope it reconnects automatically from now on
11:31:25 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, rename fields in Box and javadoc some of them in the hope to make the code more comprehensible
11:31:50 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, remove unused variable
11:32:15 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, refactor: remove (float x, float y) parameters from Lob.render -- the parent can create a translated coordsys to specify the x/y
11:32:40 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, new primitive lob to tile another lob; use to show stipple in window (dialog box) titles
11:33:08 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Theme improvements
11:33:34 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, good riddance
11:33:59 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, steps towards a slightly new interpolation system, where cs without keys are shown during interpolation
11:34:23 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, add scaling lob
11:34:47 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, treat height<0 as height==0 in ScalableFont
11:35:13 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, mostly fix new interpolation system; w and h aren't interpolated yet
11:35:38 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, finish the new interpolation system
11:35:45 <tuukkah> now there will be a lot
11:36:02 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, more fixes for new interpolation system
11:36:27 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, make StringTextModel not use a key by default (this means that text with no specified key will be 'shown during interpolation' and not matched against anything in the other vobscene)
11:36:51 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, more consistency in the keying of themed components: handle Window and ThemeFrame like the other components; if no key is specified, do not put the component's cs into the vobmatcher (make it 'shown during interpolation' and not matched against anything in the target scene)
11:37:15 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, make use of new interpolation system for clipping (do not put clipping cs in matcher if no explicit key is specified)
11:37:40 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Make LobFont size specifiable by size in pixels instead of points, since the same point size can produce quite different text sizes with different fonts and AWT implementations; make most places not declare their own LobFonts, instead using the ones from Theme
11:38:04 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, work around a bug in Classpath AWT (apparently), where mouse events get button '0' instead of 1
11:38:29 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, twiddle with clip interpolation
11:38:53 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, fix stupid scrolling bug
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11:39:17 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, little fix
11:39:41 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, speed fix
11:40:07 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, CollectionModel.containsModel(m) creates a boolean model that says whether m is in the collection
11:40:32 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, speed fix again...
11:40:56 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, revamp FunctionModel
11:41:21 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, make interruptEventloop(), called by addTask(), actually interrupt the waiting for events on AWT so that background tasks can get processed
11:41:46 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, create SequenceModel.Concat and TextModel.Concat, for creating bigger texts out of smaller ones
11:42:10 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, support for textual lists, for fenfeed (to show different dc:subjects etc)
11:42:34 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Refactor: start work on easier convention for lob constructors
11:43:00 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, use a setter-based approach rather than a keyword-based approach for component parameter setting
11:43:23 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, add c++-generated files to darcs to make compiling easier (i.e., make possible to compile java w/o compiling c++)
11:43:48 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, more refactoring for fenfeed
11:43:56 <ibid> huu
11:44:13 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, fix for ArrayOutOfBounds occuring sometimes when a cs is last in chain
11:44:41 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, README fixes; bug spotter: ibid
11:45:07 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Simplify how CLASSPATH is set; remove collections-kaffe which we don't depend on any longer (it was a copy of Kaffe's collections implementation to allow us to run on 1.1 Javas)
11:45:29 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, scrollbar fixes
11:45:54 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, hacked in ViewportLob.getVisibleFraction for scrollbar knob size
11:46:17 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, implemented scrollbar knob sizing as knobFractionModel
11:46:41 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, made the ListBox in default theme use scrollbar knob sizing
11:47:06 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Small twids to Tuukka's patch
11:47:30 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Fix my bad (and a little Tuukka's ;-)); make TextComponents use Tuukka's knob size code
11:47:55 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, small fix -- the min size of the knob should show it as rectangular
11:48:22 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, on window close, LobBinder calls System.exit(0)
11:48:44 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, Scrollbar cleanup
11:49:08 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, reordered helper functions
11:49:31 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, limited knobsize below 1, documented parameter models
11:49:55 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, scrollbar knob position follows scrolling, not selection
11:50:19 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, implemented Benja's setMinKnobSize
11:50:42 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, changed knob default min size to 10, constant size to 15
11:51:04 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, implemented WatcherLobs for size, put in use in text scrolling
11:51:26 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Fix missing brackets in Makefile
11:51:50 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, fixes to Stamp
11:52:13 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, work towards new view system
11:52:35 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, more work towards new view system with changeable views
11:52:59 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Fix OpenGL interpolation bug found in fentwine (was loom)
11:53:24 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Fix Vect.neg and copy awt buoyOnCircle from C++ src.
11:53:48 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add demo to test buoy cs.
11:54:12 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Implement between and translate polar coords.
11:54:34 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add between demo
11:54:57 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, AWT implementation of unitSq; VobCoorder.center() gives a cs at the center of the unit square; bug fixes
11:55:21 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Get rid of viewState -- serves no functionnow
11:55:43 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Start framework for fading colors into the background in AWT (i.e., GL's fog). For now, did the simplest thing that could possibly work -- have only one global fog setting for a whole VobScene -- because doing it 'right' would have been so much harder right now.
11:56:04 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, add buoyOnCircle2 to VobCoorder
11:56:27 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, general implementation of inverse transformation in AWTVobCoorder(Base)
11:56:49 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, fixes to depth fading
11:57:11 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, fixes to AWT impl of buoy-on-circle-cs
11:57:33 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, buoy cs speed improvements (do not create objects all the time!)
11:57:55 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, squash more speed bugs
11:58:17 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, work towards new architecture inside AWTVobCoorder, where for each interpolation frame we generate the coordinates for each cs only once, rather than re-generating it again and again for each child of the cs. not yet used, this is an intermediary commit
11:58:38 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, more work on new awtvobcoorder code -- the speed has increased but there are very funny-looking bugs ;-)
11:59:01 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, make the new awtvobcoorder code work, though not entirely beautifully and still with room for more optimization ;-) (it's already a lot better, though)
11:59:22 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, fix bugs in the new awtvobcoorder code
11:59:45 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, add parseFloat model to Models
12:00:08 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Fix interpolating on keystroke if already animating.
12:00:30 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, when a cs is SHOW_IN_INTERP, but one of its ancestors is DONT_INTERP, do not show the cs when interpolating
12:00:52 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, clean up a little
12:01:14 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, fix interpolation bug
12:01:35 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, fix
12:01:57 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, compare the parents' scale and use the smaller one in between cs
12:02:17 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, make buoyOnCircle2 use the new AWTVobCoorder code too (i.e. the Coordinates system) instead of some strange hybrid with doTransformRect
12:02:39 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, get rid of the old transformRect stuff in AWTVobCoorderBase
12:03:00 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, increase Trans.cs stack size
12:03:21 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, make ViewportLob more powerful by allowing to set an alignment for the content inside the visible area if the latter is bigger than the former
12:03:41 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, when dragging, pass along the position of the original click in mouse(); use that to determine which lob to dispatch the event to
12:04:02 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, fix for bug found by matti
12:04:24 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Make the recursive vs tests pass again, except for one which fails exactly the same way when programmed without any recursive vs stuff (hmmm...). Wasn't trivial, but not really hard either =)
12:04:47 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, speed fix; text was rendered character-by-character if the characters were SHOW_IN_INTERP
12:05:07 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, various fixes: hw<->sxsw, concatInverse, TranslationLob and RectBg
12:05:29 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Fix concat inverse
12:05:50 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, in TranslationLob and PanZoomLob, do not change the VobScene if it has been clear()ed since the last Lob.render() call.
12:06:11 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, better list of dependencies
12:06:34 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, invalidate AWTVobCoorder's coordinates cache when the parameters of a coordinate system are changed
12:06:55 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, if Lob.mouse() sets RERENDER, don't change that to ANIMATE in LobMain.mouse()
12:07:15 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, some dbg printouts
12:07:36 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, fix interpolation
12:07:56 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, fix w/h interpolation when SHOW_IN_INTERP is used
12:08:16 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, twids for make text editing in Fenfire work using lobs
12:08:37 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Add Difference set model which gives the set difference A\B for collections A, B.
12:08:58 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, allow PanZoomLob to be used in a way that only cares about floats, not Models
12:09:17 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, small fixes
12:09:38 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, add 'not()' model (i.e., a model that negates a bool model)
12:09:59 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, set model additions
12:10:19 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, make the boxes in a CheckBox not grow when the CheckBox is stretched :-)
12:10:41 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, in ModelLob, do delegate.addObs(this)
12:11:02 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, a variation of VisibilityLob which changes the size request to zero when the content isn't visible
12:11:23 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, make Models.parseFloat() more robust: when the string is null or "", return zero
12:11:44 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, twids
12:12:07 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, use correct height when using AWT lob text rendering
12:12:28 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, remember the last size in ModelLob; when the delegate changes, do newDelegate.setSize()
12:12:49 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Stamp fixes
12:13:09 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, handle Alt-Up / Alt-Down when no text cursor is set
12:13:28 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, add safeguard
12:13:48 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, speed fix, small but does a lot. profiling good ;-)
12:14:09 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, small speed fix: don't "render" text outside the clip rectangle (i.e., don't call Graphics.drawChars(...) for them)
12:14:29 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, speed fix: LobFont character lobs are immutable and shared between many parents, they're not supposed to register their parents as Obs...
12:14:50 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, small speed fix: depth sort only after the coorder has changed
12:15:11 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add a simple scheduler for a key and priority.
12:15:30 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, remove original impl of lob ideas (not the current implementation, the on in lava/)
12:15:49 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, start work on interfaces for the new lob system
12:16:08 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, More work on new lob system: TableLob, the first and second-most-interesting lob
12:16:26 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Javolution caching -- as far as I understand it so far :-)
12:16:45 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, ARGH, make compile
12:17:03 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, tool for resolving qnames to URIs with the namespaces specified in Java code
12:17:21 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, start work on linebreaker -- the actual linebreaking code isn't there yet
12:17:40 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, move vobs.lava to basalt/ -- there are similar files in vobs/ and the vobs.lava/ versions are unused apparently
12:17:58 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, add VobLob in new vob system -- and first demo showing anything on the screen :-)
12:18:15 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, try out table lob (needed only very small fix, but vob allocation with Javolution needs work)
12:18:33 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, until Javolution allocation of vobs is fixed, make Lobs.java create new vobs
12:18:52 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, fix Javolution caching for vobs: use Javolution reference counter
12:19:10 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, start porting lobs
12:19:28 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, more porting work, mostly LobFont, i.e. text rendering
12:19:45 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, add missing piece to render non-linebroken text; add Hello World to lobdemo :)
12:20:03 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, static methods in Lobs to construct common lobs
12:20:19 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, get rid of the Lob/Layout separation -- it made coding more difficult, as many lobs are wrappers that work the same before and after layouting
12:20:36 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, and now the most interesting lob ... except that it isn't a lob yet but only a function that will be used in creating the lob: Linebreaker
12:20:54 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, fix
12:21:10 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, don't remove generated java files in 'make clean', they're in the repository
12:21:27 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, fix linebreaking in new lob system (respect preBreakLob/postBreakLob)
12:21:44 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, add Lob.getInterface(Class), which goes through the hierarchy of wrapper lobs, looking for one that implements the given interface (see javadoc).
12:22:01 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, text editing keys in lobdemo
12:22:16 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, more text editing and more lobs
12:22:33 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, little test for interpolation: whenever pressing a key, move a line (should animate)
12:22:49 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, in lobdemo.Scene.scene(), return the VobScene object we created
12:23:05 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, ok, make animate
12:23:21 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, simplistic text cursor in lobdemo; comment out debug aid that animated a line on each key press
12:23:37 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, simpler and nicer implementation of text cursor, using the box size
12:23:54 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, argl, revert accidental delete
12:24:10 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Good architecture for text cursor lob.
12:24:25 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, s/Lob.getInterface/Lob.getImplementation/
12:24:41 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, move text edit key handling to Java
12:24:55 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, make linebreaker use layoutOneAxis as intended (see Lob.layoutOneAxis javadoc)
12:25:10 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, implement Tray; refactor demo to create only one lob and render that full screen
12:25:24 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, java-ize demo -- gives huge performance boost, python was called in some inner loop =)
12:25:39 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, In TextKeyController, use WindowAnimation for right animation behavior.
12:25:54 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, more work on new lobs -- a listBox component, default parameters for components, etc.
12:26:09 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, A code preprocessor to make Javolution programming a bit easier.
12:26:23 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, doc
12:26:37 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, use preprocessor a bit -- it does make the code much simpler...
12:26:51 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, mouse events going through (can now select item in listbox with mouse)
12:27:05 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, use java.util.List instead of the LobList interface
12:27:18 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, simplify code
12:27:31 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, make Notebook demo use new lob system (not entirely complete yet)
12:27:43 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Make event handling code less error-prone
12:27:56 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Add primitive focus handling; add abstract implementation of sequence lobs
12:28:08 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Better state handling
12:28:20 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, fixed rendering message display code
12:28:32 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, added a "splash screen" while first scene is rendering
12:28:44 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, add Lobs.add() to add a lob to a sequence (hbox, vbox, linebreaker)
12:28:56 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Add rudimentary menus.
12:29:08 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, remove obsolete documentation about font scaling factor
12:29:19 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, better menus (though two menus can still be open at the same time)
12:29:30 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, move old lob system to basalt/
12:29:40 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, twids
12:29:51 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, don't barf on round-off error
12:30:02 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Fix old functionality of vob scene, i.e., getCSAt with awt.
12:30:14 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add bosszz to show how hard it is to build with vobs.
12:30:24 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Add features to the .rj preprocessor
12:30:34 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Make the code in the Notebook demo stylistically better
12:30:45 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, experiment with ways to simplify lob coding
12:30:55 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, lobs-based boss puzzle impl
12:31:05 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, various fixes
12:31:14 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, refactor puzzle demo
12:31:24 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, oops, forgot to add
12:31:33 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, improve puzzle demo code
12:31:43 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, move defaultFont and stuff depending on it to Component, as it embodies policy
12:31:51 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Don't religiously avoid creating String objects in the puzzle demo.
12:32:01 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, argl, didn't remove CLASSES when removing Glue.java -> didn't spot these
12:32:09 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, make PuzzleBoard an ordinary class -- no need to use Javolution and the preprocessor
12:32:20 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add simple lob example - boss buzzle.
12:32:29 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, BossBuzzle twids
12:32:38 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, various linebreaking/javolution-related fixes
12:32:46 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, very crude fix for focus handling in Fenfire.rj
12:32:55 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, add viewport lob that scrolls its content to show the cs with a given key in the middle
12:33:04 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, fix text rendering (don't render individual characters with AWT)
12:33:12 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, use viewport for listbox (it doesn't handle mouse right :-( )
12:33:20 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, make sure the lobs at the end of a line have the correct key (for showing the text cursor, scrolling)
12:33:28 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, a simple image lob, needs work
12:37:05 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, more refactoring for fenfeed
12:37:19 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Sort the feeds (unicode-lexicographically)
12:37:32 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, work towards new view system
12:37:45 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, more work towards new view system with changeable views
12:37:59 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, use the STORY class for ALL_STORIES
12:38:13 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Different cursor model -- cursor states are object implementing an interface with a getNode function, but can store additional view-specific information
12:38:25 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Move FentwineVobMatcher to Fenfire, rename to ConnectionVobMatcher
12:38:38 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, start new view architecture, using structureview/spatialview separation
12:38:51 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, make the spatial context's cs have a key (needed for interpolation at least for now)
12:39:03 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, cache the lobs created by SimpleSpatialView
12:39:06 <ibid> majukati: i could've helped you with korppi
12:39:16 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, print out less
12:39:29 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, don't create iterator objects for every node in view building
12:39:42 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, start work on canvas view as a spatial context view
12:39:54 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, twid
12:40:06 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, simplify ConnectionVobMatcher by removing unused stuff
12:40:19 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, interpolate spatial contexts: they need to have the same key [makes sense ;-)]
12:40:32 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, lookup functions necessary for showing buoys to non-focused nodes in spatial contexts
12:40:45 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, use helper lobs creating the vob matcher structure for spatial contexts; share the helper lobs between the spatial views
12:40:59 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, make spatial views specify whether their mainviews should be shown big
12:41:11 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, add RDFS.java (thx Tuukka)
12:41:24 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add CanvasCursor to Cursor
12:41:36 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Use real canvas :)
12:41:48 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Twids to SpatialView interface
12:42:00 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, use a standard Frame lob instead of a special UniqueColorLob (which used RectBgLob, ugh [because RectBgLob does many things together rather than a single orthogonal thing])
12:42:12 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, handle non-canvascursors correctly
12:42:25 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Move CanvasCursor out of org.fenfire.Cursor; add adapter model that gives the panX or panY or zoom, given a Model containing a (Canvas or non-Canvas)Cursor.
12:42:37 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, cache only the canvas content, not the translation lob &c, as mudyc suggested on the list
12:42:49 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, actually use WindowAnimation in CanvasSpatialView
12:43:01 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Make CanvasSpatialView use cursors properly (using the central Cursor model)
12:43:13 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, change getLob() to getMainviewLob() and getBuoyLob() as proposed on list (though the proposed names were getMainLob() and getNodeLob()...)
12:43:25 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, make clicking on a node focus it
12:43:37 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Start Dublin Core vocabulary
12:43:49 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add simple spatial calendar view
12:44:01 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, new cursor system, essentially as discussed on ff-dev
12:44:13 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, make calendar view work somewhat
12:44:25 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, try to also allow sending messages for private/ (only the commit message, no diff)
12:44:37 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, twid
12:44:48 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, argl
12:45:00 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, add old gzz.potion code
12:45:11 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, bring potions forward to 2005 ;-)
12:45:22 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, get rid of separation between Expressions and Calls
12:45:33 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, make potions somewhat useful
12:45:45 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Add a way to evaluate expressions when the user presses the key, before the command is complete
12:45:56 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, When creating a new cell, move the cursor onto it.
12:46:07 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, correct panning in canvas buoys
12:46:18 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, generalize ViewSettings to be used for both spatial and content views
12:46:30 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, fix: cannot create new Type objects all the time if we don't implement equals() and hashCode()
12:46:39 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, better content view
12:46:50 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add irc bot to notice changes in darcs repos
12:47:00 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Twid
12:47:10 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Small twids to darcsbot
12:47:20 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, make text editing work
12:47:29 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, add a SetModel giving all properties in the graph
12:47:40 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, don't use TextCursor, TextEditController or ViewportLob in property lobs
12:47:50 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Radically simplify cursor architecture.
12:48:00 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, oops, discard spatial cursor when moving through the structure
12:48:10 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, change the panzoomlob manually in the dragcontrollers -- needs ugly caching of the mainview during dragging so that we don't create new DragControllers whose isDragging is set to false...
12:48:19 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, document mainview cache, based on what I said on IRC...
12:48:29 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, factor SimpleContentView.ContentModel out, call it org.fenfire.lob.NodeTextModel, doc it
12:48:39 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, when making a new connection, set the rotation to it
12:48:49 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Allow the user to move on / edit literals.
12:48:58 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, use unique colors for property text (not very successful yet)
12:49:07 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Back to old Loom/Fentwine color scheme. Nice, I feel at home ;-)
12:49:18 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, make Fenfire load RDF/XML when called like 'make run FILE='--xml foaf.rdf'
12:49:26 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, don't delete cached files when the server says you can use them :-o
12:49:36 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, don't barf when more than one literal exists on a given text property
12:49:46 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Add system for batching a whole update to a graph and triggering all obses together.
12:49:55 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, text-scroll only the focused node, not all others whose content is bigger than the box, too :)
12:50:05 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, add rdfs:seeAlso
12:50:14 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Fixes to literal editing
12:50:23 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, work on text editing
12:50:32 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, limit node size growth along Y axis -- allow mainviews to be higher than buoys
12:50:42 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, New smushing architecture -- the UI code needs to know about smushing
12:50:52 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, test and fix HashGraph.rm_1111
12:51:00 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, test and fix a bug in StdObserver
12:51:10 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, make NamespaceMap observable and make NodeTextModel observe it, so that you can change the namespace mapping and have the views reflect it
12:51:18 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, argl, add SmushListener
12:51:27 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, for the purpose of smushing, convert foaf:mbox to foaf:mbox_sha1sum and use that, so that smushing works between two FOAF files one of which uses mbox and one of which uses mbox_sha1sum
12:51:35 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, more speed fixing
12:51:43 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, adjust to changed behavior of SmushedQuadsGraph
12:51:53 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, test & fix
12:52:03 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, twid
12:52:11 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, simplify mbox/sha1sum implementation; doesn't change the bug
12:52:20 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, SmushedQuadsGraph tests, fixes -- sigh
12:52:29 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, show test names correctly in test.py
12:52:37 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, make calendar view use real days, computed in the proper Java way (I think =))
12:52:46 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, have CalendarCursor only store a single date (i.e., the focused one)
12:52:55 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, make calendarview days clickable
12:53:03 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, potions 'goto' command (for moving the cursor to a given node)
12:53:11 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Change how spatial mainviews work: the lob they return is rendered full-screen.
12:53:19 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Full screen wasn't such a good idea, but *almost* full screen canvas looks quite good. :-)
12:53:27 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, cache calendar view (was very slow)
12:53:36 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, hackery to improve calendar view look
12:53:43 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, add hasLink() to complement getLink() which can throw NoSuchElementException
12:53:52 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add very simple image view.
12:54:00 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Fix line delay for irc bot.
12:54:03 <rubberpaw> rubberpaw has joined #fenfire
12:54:08 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, add javolution to classpath
12:54:16 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, catch exception is lastRead time is not in cache
12:54:24 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, added makefile target clean
12:54:32 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, removed two non-ops, compiles on kaffe java compiler
12:54:40 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, update to Gnowsis 0.8.1
12:54:48 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Separate content view into text and image (and in page)  views.
12:54:56 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, add property view
12:55:03 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, add foaf vocab
12:55:10 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, add copyright statement to send_darcs_diffs.py
12:55:18 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, the project is called Fenfire, not metacode/
12:55:25 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, remove SimpleContentView
12:55:32 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, cleaned up NodeTextModel
12:55:41 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, literal datatypes and languages, and preferred language
12:55:48 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, write namespaces to turtle files
12:55:55 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, use Pair.java from storm instead of a copy
12:56:02 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, use URN5Namespace from storm instead of a copy
12:56:10 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, write turtle files using the defined namespaces
12:56:17 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, accept application/x-turtle as our web site sends that
12:56:25 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, partial port to new lob system (unported parts are commented out or moved to basalt/ for now)
12:56:32 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, twids
12:56:39 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, rudimentary viewing of literals
12:56:46 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, add project to projects in send_darc_diffs.py
12:56:54 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, move defaultFont and stuff depending on it to Component, as it embodies policy
12:57:00 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, fix SimpleSpatialView clipping
12:57:07 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, make colors for properties work again
12:57:13 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, oops, parameter namespaces can be null
12:57:19 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, retry with exponential backoff on disconnect
12:57:29 <ffdarcsbot> storm: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, update xom
12:57:34 <ffdarcsbot> storm: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, as XSLTransform(InputStream) is no longer available, use XSLTransform(Document) instead
12:57:40 <ffdarcsbot> storm: Matti Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Use optional java compiler in make.
12:57:46 <ffdarcsbot> storm: Matti Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add copyrighter in Makefile
12:57:52 <ffdarcsbot> storm: Matti Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Copyright
12:57:58 <ffdarcsbot> storm: Matti Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add new file db stuff
12:58:04 <ffdarcsbot> storm: Matti Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, copyright fix
12:58:10 <ffdarcsbot> storm: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Shouldn't have more than one class/interface in a .java file -- make MultiDB the interface, MultiDB.Impl the implementation
12:58:15 <ffdarcsbot> storm: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Change DB.java too
12:58:22 <ffdarcsbot> storm: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, merged changes to Pair.java from org.fenfire.util
12:58:28 <ffdarcsbot> storm: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, merge changes to URN5Namespace from org.fenfire.util
12:58:34 <ffdarcsbot> alph: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, inherit JAVAC and JAVA from environment if defined there
12:58:47 <ffdarcsbot> depends: unknown author, rename, because darcs doesn't allow files differing only in case for cross-platform compatibility
12:58:54 <ffdarcsbot> depends: unknown author, add png.license too
12:59:00 <ffdarcsbot> depends: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, add RIO (RDF I/O, www.openrdf.org) jar
12:59:07 <ffdarcsbot> depends: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, update xom
12:59:14 <ffdarcsbot> depends: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Add Javolution (http://javolution.org)
12:59:20 <ffdarcsbot> depends: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, update to Gnowsis 0.8.1
12:59:27 <ffdarcsbot> depends: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, updated rio.jar to newly released 1.0.2
12:59:33 <ffdarcsbot> navidoc: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, Fixes for website generation
12:59:38 <ffdarcsbot> navidoc: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, use python instead of jython, and assume that docutils is installed on the system rather than using docutils.jar
12:59:44 <ffdarcsbot> navidoc: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, interface that background processes can call to report on their progress (for progress bars)
12:59:51 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add journals and teaching directories
12:59:57 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, start journal
13:00:03 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, add TIE363
13:00:09 <ffdarcsbot> project: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, add notes re course
13:00:16 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, update
13:00:22 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, add add
13:00:28 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Start course homepage, think content.
13:00:34 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, validate
13:00:40 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Rearrange the site + twids
13:00:46 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Twids and changes
13:00:52 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Validate and fix spelling
13:00:58 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, aupdate journal
13:01:04 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add simple help to use .procmailrc with computer center mail system
13:01:09 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add more work to jvk
13:01:15 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Translate main page
13:01:21 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Translate manner of performance and small twids
13:01:27 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, twids
13:01:33 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Argh twid
13:01:40 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add no translation -page
13:01:46 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Fix stupid procmail help
13:01:52 <ffdarcsbot> project: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, start proposal notes -- going slow, blah
13:01:58 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add utilization plan questions. Propose to talk about activities and design.
13:02:04 <ffdarcsbot> project: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, more from yesterday
13:02:10 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Propose some answers
13:02:15 <ffdarcsbot> project: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, some more notes...
13:02:21 <ffdarcsbot> project: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, more brainstorming. hmm
13:02:28 <ffdarcsbot> project: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, new try
13:02:33 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Propose issues for lectures. Add some issues.
13:02:39 <ffdarcsbot> project: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, more utilization plan (what's the demand)
13:02:45 <ffdarcsbot> project: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, more utilization plan: potential applications
13:02:51 <ffdarcsbot> project: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, notes about missing parts of utilization plan
13:02:57 <ffdarcsbot> project: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, write out xxx in utilization plan
13:03:03 <ffdarcsbot> project: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, re-order questions to fit the prose already written
13:03:08 <ffdarcsbot> project: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, intro to utilization plan, explaining ff -- assumes that articles are attached
13:03:14 <ffdarcsbot> project: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, remove old notes
13:03:20 <ffdarcsbot> project: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, use 1 2 3 instead of a) b) c) because in HTML they're rendered as 1., 2., 3.
13:03:26 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add utilization translation of the plan
13:03:31 <ffdarcsbot> project: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, add XXX comment to improve some text unclear to mudyc
13:03:37 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add short description
13:03:43 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add lecture1 directory
13:03:49 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add dates and times
13:03:55 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, remove draft
13:04:00 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add few words of identities :/
13:04:06 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add short intro to rdf.
13:04:12 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add first lecture
13:04:17 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Bug fixes
13:04:23 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add missing files
13:04:29 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, validate
13:04:34 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, validate
13:04:40 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, validate
13:04:45 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add short text of xanalogical media
13:04:51 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, cut long text
13:04:56 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Additions
13:05:02 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, fixes
13:05:08 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, add ascii chart
13:05:13 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, fix
13:05:19 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, validate
13:05:24 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, fixes and expections
13:05:30 <ffdarcsbot> project: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, fixed link to Getting started
13:05:35 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, translate some material
13:05:41 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, fixes
13:05:46 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, translate more
13:05:52 <ffdarcsbot> project: Tuukka Hastrup <Tuukka.Hastrup@iki.fi>, I needed to import java to get the example running
13:05:57 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Apply vegai's patch to "manner of performance" -page.
13:06:02 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add short text for kitara application requested by pn/esa
13:06:07 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, Add more information about structure proposed by tuukkah
13:06:13 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, More stuff for todays lecture.
13:06:18 <ffdarcsbot> project: Matti J. Katila <majukati@cc.jyu.fi>, add some text for lobs
13:06:23 <ffdarcsbot> project: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, partial lecture notes from trip
13:06:28 <ffdarcsbot> hippaladuida
13:08:29 <ibid> is it absolutely necessary to spew that much each time?
13:08:32 <vegai> active day :)
13:08:49 <ibid> ah, no problem then
13:09:01 <ibid> i assumed it was ffdarcsbot resending something already seen
13:09:14 <benja_> I think it didn't, but I'm not sure
13:09:39 <benja_> I think it only announced what was new since it had been started the last time
13:10:37 <ibid> 15:38  <ibid> majukati: i could've helped you with korppi
13:10:49 <ibid> (save the lone lines:)
13:21:22 <antont> did anyone see my question about the rst -> latex -> pdf toolchain, or answer?-)
13:22:58 <tuukkah> saw it but didn't know any answer
13:26:12 <antont> ok
13:26:47 <antont> last time (in autumn) i got pretty ok pdfs out, and probably can just hand-edit the latex to get it done .. didn't find any new versions of the tools
13:27:12 <antont> there was some prob with refs but at least doing it in latex will solve that
13:46:35 <tuukkah> majukati, I can't understand how Korppi can make it too hard to change lecture time
13:46:53 <ibid> it doesn't
13:47:09 <majukati> tuukkah: i got a helping mail already
13:50:08 <tuukkah> majukati, aren't there people who can help you if you have trouble, like Korppi administrators on #korppi@IRCNet or the amanuensis of the department
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14:07:27 <majukati> am i online still?
14:07:32 <benja_> y
14:07:33 <majukati> i am good
14:07:37 <benja_> =)
14:07:47 <majukati> no
14:07:50 <majukati> i am, good
14:07:56 <benja_> heh
14:09:26 <ffdarcsbot> libvob: Hanna Ollila <hamaolli@cc.jyu.fi>, add necessary imports and exceptions
14:13:26 <antont> oh, new member?
14:15:17 <tuukkah> student on the course :-)
14:36:48 <antont> ok nice :)
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15:50:08 <majukati> what's going on?  i have int max in a class that i do extend and in a constructor, after super() this max is zero even if in super() it's initialized?
15:50:58 <benja_> majukati: I don't know, but the devil can be in the details. can you put the code online quickly? (I'm leaving soon :))
15:53:06 <majukati> http://people.cc.jyu.fi/~majukati/AWTPagePool.java
15:53:15 <majukati> http://people.cc.jyu.fi/~majukati/LobbedPagePool.java
15:53:41 <benja_> what's the variable?
15:53:44 <benja_> ah, max?
15:53:57 <benja_> majukati: you use 'int maxW = ...' in constructor
15:53:58 <majukati> maxW and maxH
15:54:03 <benja_> so you create a local maxW
15:54:08 <benja_> don't change the maxW in the object
15:54:13 <majukati> ah, argh
15:54:15 <benja_> :)
15:55:20 <majukati> should have noticed that but thanx
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16:04:47 <ibid> * ibid lost the faculty elections _/
16:04:48 <ibid> :/
16:08:03 <vegai> electing what?
16:08:49 <ibid> faculty council, II staff group (staff excluding professors)
16:09:39 <vegai> oh :/
16:10:18 <ibid> well, it was mostly expected
16:10:37 <ibid> the election method is so bad that we had to do strategic voting
16:10:49 <ibid> and i knew i'd be in the shared last position
16:11:03 <ibid> but i lost the coin toss :/
16:22:41 <antont> uh
16:23:34 <ibid> uh?
16:25:37 <antont> just a reaction to 19:10 < ibid> but i lost the coin toss :/
16:28:47 <ibid> i got that
16:29:10 <ibid> it just sounded like "hey, there's something fishy about this"
16:29:46 <antont> ah, it was not that
16:30:14 <antont> more like: 'how unfortunate that there has to be a coin toss, and i guess even more that you lost"
16:31:00 <antont> am reading Interface Development for Hypermedia Applications in the Semantic Web, http://www.inf.puc-rio.br/~schwabe/papers/SSMoura_LAWEB2004_Final.pdf btw
16:31:00 <ibid> we both got one vote :)
16:31:06 <antont> ah :)
16:31:06 <ibid> our own
16:31:39 <ibid> all other votes in our semi-control were divided between the main candidates to ensure their pass
16:31:46 <antont> .. dunno what should make of that paper, perhaps someone here finds it interesting .. i guess time to stop for today for me, will need to re-read that at some point
16:32:00 <antont> right
16:32:10 <tuukkah> antont, is it about user-interfaces?
16:32:18 <antont> tuukkah: in a way
16:32:45 <antont> tuukkah: they've made some kind of an ontology of abstract widgets
16:33:16 <antont> stuff like VariableCapturer and MultipleChoices
16:33:56 <tuukkah> well, benja_ has some plans for lobs in rdf
16:34:06 <antont> and a Concrete Widget Ontology too, which maps those to implementations in xul, swing, uiml etc
16:34:45 <antont> so perhaps there could be a mapping to Fenfire Lobs or something there too
16:35:01 <tuukkah> yes
16:35:15 <antont> .. when apps for which UIs have been defined using the abstract ontology, well you know :)
16:36:17 <antont> will you mention this to him, or will he get the pointer from here?
16:36:32 <antont> (am so tired & lazy now that am trying to avoid e-mailing it seems :)
16:44:36 <tuukkah> let's see, I encouraged him today to set up his computer to get on the net from his place
16:45:12 <majukati> tuukkah: don't do that - he needs to study
16:46:48 <antont> .. am writing a post
16:47:45 <benja_> majukati: too late :-(
16:47:48 <benja_> [;)]
16:48:01 <antont> oh well now i wrote the post in vain too ;(
16:48:16 <benja_> antont: oh, I haven't read yet what you said ;)
16:48:33 <majukati> benja_: argh, now i need to arrange a distributed dos attack for your ip
16:49:51 <antont> huh someone did that to the department server i quess, 'cause it died just before i sent the mail
16:49:56 <antont> benja_: so please read from above..
16:50:05 <antont> (or study :)
16:50:41 <benja_> mhm :)
16:54:02 <antont> well there seems to be nothing too special there
16:54:46 <antont> i'm off - cu
16:55:00 <benja_> cu
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17:25:13 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, start working on porting CanvasSpatialView
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17:55:55 <benja_> http://kerneltrap.org/node/4966
17:56:18 <benja_> my, am I glad that the open source community 'screwed up' =-)
17:56:32 <ibid> aol
17:57:11 <benja_> *googles* america on-line? :)
17:57:18 <ibid> yes
17:57:36 <ibid> used to indicate agreement
17:57:43 <benja_> huh :)
17:58:03 <ibid> it's a post-eternal-september thing
17:58:08 <benja_> (I first thought it would be the opposite of AWOL, but that would be AWL :))
17:58:22 <ibid> PWOL? :)
17:58:33 <benja_> P?
17:58:52 <ibid> aol subscribers tended to be not very bright in the early days, posting a lot of "me too" messages and such
17:58:56 <ibid> present
17:58:57 <benja_> right
17:59:25 <benja_> "we represent as open-source friendly a commercial organization as you are *ever* going to see"
17:59:37 <ibid> yeah right
17:59:54 <benja_> (CEO of BitMover) -- if the open source folks agree with him on that, I'll start to believe in the thing about separate OSS and Free Software communities :)
18:02:07 <benja_> it's interesting that the main productivity gain from using BitKeeper, according to this article, seems to have come from a missing feature :-o
18:02:17 <ibid> heh
18:02:53 <benja_> (they'll say it's design, but there's no fundamental reason why you couldn't have a 'let me cherry-pick parts of this patch' operation)
18:03:08 <benja_> (similar to what darcs has on 'darcs record')
18:03:22 <ibid> and darcs pull
18:03:42 <benja_> ibid: darcs pull works on the level of whole patches, doesn't it?
18:03:51 <ibid> yes
18:04:31 <ibid> i understood the bitkeeper thing to be such that it couldn't break down patchsets
18:04:36 <ibid> but i could be wrong
18:05:14 <benja_> mhm
18:33:28 <benja_> might be worth to mention and reply to Jonathan Schwartz's comment about the GPL and developing nations in the Keep It Free seminar
18:34:20 <tuukkah> is it worth mentioning ?-/
18:34:26 <ibid> * ibid is serving as a judge at that time
18:36:37 <benja_> tuukkah: I think it makes our arguments more interesting / compelling if you can show how they contrast with the arguments of people who disagree
18:36:38 <tuukkah> condemn them :-)
18:37:29 <tuukkah> benja_, that's true
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21:26:44 <ffdarcsbot> fenfire: Benja Fallenstein <b.fallenstein@gmx.de>, more canvasview work
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